Lawyer and environmental activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. explains why fighting climate change starts with a better-functioning democracy.

We’ve been talking for five minutes about subjects like sustainable energy, climate change and environmental pollution when Robert F. Kennedy Jr., 60, brings up the role of politics. “To me, it’s the same as fighting for democracy. It’s not just about fighting for the fishes and the birds. It’s about fighting for all of the values that we believe in.”

For a Kennedy, it could hardly be about anything else. Even leaning back in a chair in his garden in Malibu, on the Pacific Ocean, he sounds as if he’s speaking from a podium. His blue eyes are as piercing as those of his father, Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, and his uncle, President John F. Kennedy, whose hope and idealism inspired a generation half a century ago. “It’s the task of government to protect the general interest. When government fails, the result is tyranny. Potent private interests begin to dominate society and steal from the commons for quick material gains.”

Pollution is theft, Kennedy maintains, because it transfers production costs to society. “Wherever you see large-scale pollution, you will also see the subversion of democracy, you will see the compromise of public officials, the capture of the agencies they are supposed to protect—they become sock puppets of the industries they are supposed to regulate.”

Ultimately, politicians become puppets controlled by big business. Kennedy gives an example. “West Virginia is the second-largest coal mining state in the US. Coal companies have cut down 500 mountains in the state. Further, by dumping the rocky debris in waterways, the coal industry buried 2,200 miles of rivers and streams and poisoned thousands of miles more. In public opinion polls, 80 percent or more of the people of West Virginia consequently speak out against coal mining. However, no senator or member of the House has ever raised the issue in Washington. That’s corruption.”

It’s an outdated, useless debate. “There’s about 80,000 coal miners left in America. Already, 200,000 people work in the solar industry, and that number goes up 15 percent per year.”

Another salient fact: “Ninety percent of the elections in the US are won by the candidate with the most money. That proves that elections are for sale.”

As we turn to election financing, the names Charles and David Koch immediately come up. The Koch brothers invested $300 million in Republican congressional candidates last year. “These ‘terrorists of climate change’ didn’t do that because they love the United States of America; they did that because they believed that capturing and making indentured servants of our political representatives would make them wealthier.”

He points to a recent study by the Sunlight Foundation that found that the 200 most politically active businesses in the United States spent $5.8 billion on federal lobbying and campaign contributions between 2007 and 2012. In return, the study found, these companies received an incredible $4.4 trillion in federal support for business over the same period—meaning every dollar they spent earned them more than $700. “American elections are the most lucrative investment you can make,” says Kennedy.

It seems like a very American problem. It’s not like this everywhere—is it?

“There’s no better way to judge the functioning of a democracy than by looking at the way the common heritage—air, water, nature—is taken care of. In dictatorships like China, you see terrible pollution. And in poorly functioning democracies like Russia, you see the same. But it’s not just about these countries. The International Energy Agency (IEA) recently identified that governments annually hand out $585 billion a year in direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry. The myth that these fuels are cheaper simply does not count the true and hidden costs, such as the health costs of pollution. This happens throughout the world—in Europe, too. The EU has better environmental laws, but they are not preventing this fundamental flaw in the free markets. Why would we annually pay $585 billion in tax dollars to the most profitable industry in world history? That money needs to be used for things that are in the interests of all—not just in the interests of the few shareholders of the oil industry. The rules by which energy is regulated were written to favor the most poisonous, destructive and addictive fuels from hell, rather than cheap, clean, green, safe, abundant and patriotic fuels from heaven.”

But as established utility companies keep saying, doesn’t the transition to green energy have to happen gradually to avoid damage to the economy?

“The same argument was used to try to halt the abolition of slavery, which accounted for 25 percent of the gross national product of Britain at the time. Instead of collapsing, the economy exploded. Entrepreneurs and innovation led to the Industrial Revolution.”

At age 8, Bobby Kennedy Jr. wrote his uncle Jack, then in the White House, that when his family went to church on Sundays, his white shirt was always black by the time he got home because of the heavy smog in Washington. Uncle Jack invited Bobby to the Oval Office to meet Rachel Carson, the author of 1962’s Silent Spring and, in the eyes of many, the founder of the US environmental movement.

In 1984, after law school, Kennedy joined Riverkeeper, a watchdog organization started by fishermen to monitor pollution of New York’s Hudson River, which flows into the Atlantic Ocean. On behalf of Riverkeeper, Kennedy successfully brought legal action against a number of businesses that were polluting the river. Today, fish—and people—swim in the Hudson again. Time magazine named Kennedy a Hero for the Planet because of his work on behalf of the river. In 1999, Riverkeeper started the Waterkeeper Alliance to support similar organizations around the world. Waterkeeper groups now operate in 160 locations worldwide.

Can lawyers use legal action to stop climate change and other forms of environmental damage perpetrated by business?

“Attorneys need laws. That worked in the case of the Hudson. It worked, too, to fight the tobacco industry. Lawyers did the work, but they were supported by the Department of Justice. That’s different now. We have already witnessed that Republicans were able to push through—as a kind of footnote to the 3,000-page Homeland Security Act, which was adopted after 9/11—a measure that protects the pharmaceutical industry against any claims with respect to health issues caused by vaccinations. When lawyers attack the oil industry because of climate change, you can rest assured that Washington will adopt legislation to make that impossible. That’s why I say that a cleaner world begins with a better-functioning democracy.”

The picture seems bleak. There appears to be no end in sight to the impasse in Washington, and we need to tackle climate change now.

“Yet I’m hopeful. Last year, 44 percent of the newly installed energy capacity came from renewables like solar and wind. In solar, you are going to see the kind of technology growth curves that you saw in the computer industry. The price of solar panels is decreasing exponentially, much like with computers in the past. For wind, that’s a bit different, because you need steel and concrete. Utility companies say that in 30 of the states in the US, solar is compatible despite the low oil and gas prices. That’s not just good for the environment. But as the environment needs democracy, democracy benefits from clean, renewable energy. The political system tends to reflect the organi-zation of the financial systems it governs. So if you have a financial system that is controlled by a few large players, you’re going to tend to see the political systems devolve into plutocracy, away from democ-racy. But if you have an economic system in which there are millions of participants with solar panels on their roofs and windmills in their gardens, the political system will reflect that. Sustainable energy is good for democracy.”

With that, we’re back on the subject we never truly left: politics and democracy. After being caught with a small amount of heroin in college, Bobby Kennedy Jr. never chose to enter politics. The offense counted as a black mark he could never erase. Nevertheless, with his considered views on the entanglement of energy and democracy, he’s following in his father’s and his uncle’s footsteps.

Every week, crowds come to hear Kennedy’s thoughts on energy, politics and democracy. He almost exclusively addresses Republican audiences in Republi-can states—that, he says, is where his work is needed the most. “After almost all my speeches, I receive a standing ovation. That makes me optimistic. These people apparently understand it as well.” He says it without vanity or arrogance; he’s simply happy to get the signal.

Leadership and charisma may run in families, but Bobby Kennedy’s charisma takes the form of genuine likability, with a heavy dose of passion. While an ostrich that’s been roaming freely about the yard tries to disrupt our conversation, Kennedy, undeterred, sums up his message: “Virtually all the big challenges we face are rooted in how we extract and use energy. Nature is the infrastructure of our communities. We need a marketplace that does what a market is supposed to do, which is to reward good behavior, which is efficiency, and punish bad behavior, which is inefficiency and waste. In the next decade, there will be an epic battle between the forces of ignorance and greed represented by the oil industry and the forces of hope that drive towards a clean, renewable economy with more democ-racy.

“An epic battle,” he muses softly. His clan is good at those.